25 October 2024

Cheap Handgun Hunting Challenge - It'll Be a .40 S&W

 For a while now, I've had an idea on how to setup an entry level rig for handgun hunting. And no, it's not a Hi Point. I suppose you could purchase the 10mm Hi Point with the red dot and it still be cheaper but I think my idea is more interesting. What can we do for under $500 that gets us into handgun hunting?

Over the last few years, I have spent tons of time pouring over internet data looking at ballistic gel testing results for the best cartridges for defensive applications for each caliber I have. When I started looking at using pistol cartridges for hunting whitetail deer, I amended the data requirements to look for factory loads that exceed the 18 inch maximum requirement. The closer I can get to 20 inches, the better. My favorite General Purpose load for .357 Magnum is the Remington 158 gr SJHP HTP load. They are in the 18 to 19 inch range. I can confirm a pass through at 100 yards on a smaller doe from my rifle. It's how I took my only deer in 2023. 

The loads that stuck out in Lucky Gunner's .40 S&W testing are the Remington Golden Saber Bonded 165 gr HP as they opened up to .66 inch and penetrated to an average of 19.6 inches, the Federal HST 180 grain at 18.5 inches of penetration at .72 inch and finally the SIG V-Crown 165 grain at .57 inch wide with 20.2 inches of penetration. All in all, I think the Federal HST load is my immediate pick. There are other notable loads in the list but I think those are the top ones. They all exceed the 18 inch FBI maximum and expanded out passed .50 inch. Please note that these loads were tested with a Glock 27 which has a 3.4 inch barrel.

If we choose the Federal HST option (part number P40HST1) for our load, we next need a launcher. 

If you know where to look, I think the best option is the classic police trade in, Glock 22. This is the .40 S&W version of the original Glock 17. The gen 3 trade in units can be had regularly for under $350. As I type this, one well known surplus store has them on sale for $279.99. You can AIM to please with such a good price. The 22 has a 4.4 inch barrel which means you should expect a little more velocity compared to Lucky Gunner's testing pistol. More velocity means the bullet can go further toward your deer without reducing the expansion chances. You can take a further shot. 

If you want a little more precision than what the stock open sights give you, a red dot can be mounted. I recommend milling the slide but if you are on a tight budget, the dovetail mounts might work for you. Your mileage may vary on quality. 

My rough estimation on the out of pocket cost for this rig with red dot is around $450 with taxes and transfer fees and a box of ammo. While it's still more expensive than the Hi-Point, I expect the Glock is a much more reliable option. At the very least, you will have a good self defense gun if this doesn't work out. 

Looking at LG's data set, the HST load achieved 960 fps average. The extra 1 inch on the 22 should get you closer to Federal's claimed 1010 fps. If we plug in 1010 fps into a ballistic calculator and zero at 25 yards, 960 fps is around 43 yards from the muzzle. We're also around .4 inch down. Thankfully, the 180 grain pill is pretty hefty and maintains velocity pretty well. At 50 yards, we're looking at 950 fps which we should still see expansion based on LG's findings. I think that's good enough for a deer stand gun. 

While I don't have the funds to do this at the moment, what I do have is a SIG P226 in .40 S&W that I bought years ago. It also as a 4.4 inch barrel. I'm starting to think that maybe it's time to resurrect a project I had for that pistol a while back. 

That said, my proposal is this, the police trade in Glock 22 along with the Federal HST 180 grain load is likely the best inexpensive way to get into handgun hunting. 

04 September 2024

The CZ 457 Scout - 5 Years of Ownership

 In my previous article on the CZ 457 Scout, I claimed that the Scout was the Perfect Plinker. I've probably used that term a little too loosely over the years but at the time, I think I was onto something. Since then, I've picked up a few more rifles such as the Chiappa LA322 and finished the build out of the Ruger 10/22. I still stand by my statement of the rifle being suppressed and manually operated. Until the LA322 build is complete, the CZ 457 Scout is probably the closest to the Perfect Plinker as I can get for now. I will say this, if you like bolt actions more than you like lever actions or semi-autos, I think the CZ 457 Scout is just for you. Let me show you some of the updates that I've made over the last 5 years.


The first big change from the September 2019 article is that I now have a .22 specific silencer to use on the 1/2x28 threads. The El Camino from Q is lightweight and user serviceable and seems good at it's job. I don't have any other .22 silencers or tools to meter and quantify my experience but so far, everything is going well. Its the only .22 suppressor I have so I gets used on many different guns. Someday, I'll own several more and will be able to dedicate a can to various rifles. 



At 4 oz, the Q El Camino is light on weight but big on funny names. That's a theme with Q.

I also added a sling to the rifle as I think all long guns need a sling. Those two things by themselves are about as much as I really need but I did add one more leather product. A cartridge cuff. The leather cartridge cuff is an inexpensive unit that holds 16 rounds of .22 LR in loops. To accommodate the round count, the cuff is rather long and includes rubber shims or spacers. In this instance, I needed all 4 spacers as the short stock leaves too much play in the cuff. Ultimately, this does make the rifle fit me better but once children become apart of my life, I can take off the cuff as needed. We're a few years away before the first one reaches an appropriate age for this firearm.



I usually have the cuff filled with Winchester 36 grain HP for small game as needed.

Originally, I had intended to just use the original iron sights but due to an interesting situation, I was able to purchase an ADE pistol red dot from an Amazon bin store. I got the dot for $4. Additionally, I picked up a picatinny to dovetail adapter and an inexpensive mount and installed on the Scout. I zeroed for 25 yards to keep it simple and quiet using the CCI Standard Velocity.



The dot sits a little more proud than I like.

I know that the red dot conflicts with the open sights part of the concept but when I found out the red dot was the RMSc footprint and not the Doctor/Noblex footprint, I found I wasn't going to be able to use it on anything else at the moment as all my mounts are the Doctor/Noblex pattern. So far, I haven't found a dedicated 11mm dovetail to RMSc mount to replace the current setup with. This works for now.



I will always prefer a dedicated mount but sometimes nothing exists. You have to make one or make due.

That rounds up all the changes I've made since the September 2019 article. All together, the rifle is still very lightweight and easy to carry. As a matter of fact, the rifle with everything is just under 6.5 pounds. What I love about it is that it isn't super long and is lots of fun to shoot. When I carry this rifle, it makes me want to put together a super lightweight hunting rifle like a Rossi R92.

Review 

Over the last 5 years, I haven't found much that I am unhappy with regarding the CZ 457 Scout. In fact, I have zero complaints about this rifle. It's just simply a great rifle. I have not yet made use of the modularity of the rifle such as the easy to swap barrels or easy to replace stock. I've just been happy with it in both stock and accessorized versions.



The 10 round magazines stick out a bit and can get hung up while carrying. I suggest the 5 round for field use.

The wood is of good quality and seems to have good fitment to the receiver. I might like a little texture on the wrist if that was an option. The iron sights are easy to use though a little chunky. They remind me more of pistol sights than rifle sights. The front sight tunnel is open on the top to let light in, which I appreciate. The chunky rear sight appears to be adjustable for windage but I haven't felt the need to correct them as it seems regulated well enough. 

At first, when I got the rifle and found that it only had a single shot sled, instead of a magazine, I was a little annoyed. That said, I have found that when I'm plinking way, I don't always want to reload magazines and using the sled keeps things moving. It may be slow but that's fine for casual. If I want to hunt or crank out a few rounds, I can load the 5 or 10 round magazines I have for the rifle. One a side note, there is a very long 25 round magazine that would be fun to get ahold of. The magazines are all single stack so they tend to get long.

I have put a large but unknown number of rounds through this rifle and have had no issues. It's a bolt action so there isn't any ammunition related sensitivities that I need to worry about. The magazines feed just fine when I want to use them. The rifle has been setup for various situations before the current setup. At one point, I had a scope on it for my oldest niece to go squirrel hunting. That was short lived. The current setup just lends itself better to casual plinking a short range field use. 

All in all, this rifle has turned out to be simply fantastic. The current setup is easy to understand and is very user friendly. With a good silencer and ammo, the rifle is quiet. If you are looking for a .22 LR rifle for light use or for training kids on, I would recommend considering one for your inventory. 

17 August 2024

My Nearly Perfect Plinker - The Chiappa LA322 Takedown Carbine Threaded

 In January 2024, Chiappa very quietly posted on their website a new version of their LA322 lever action 22 LR rifle. I only found out about it because I happened along and noticed it. This was a takedown carbine that was advertised as having a 1/2x28 threaded 18.5 inch barrel. The only thing it was missing was open sighs. I suppose it was intended to have a scope or red dot. Minus the missing sights, the rifle looks exactly the way I've been wanting. Wood stocks, blued steel and a threaded barrel for a silencer. I go over this concept a bit in my article called My Dream Plinker. My tastes have definitely changed as I thought my CZ 457 Scout was the Perfect Plinker but my love of lever action rifles has reigned king. I kept an eye out to see when the new version of the LA322 would be available. As it turns out, they started shipping fairly quickly and many options for under $350. I jumped on one.

The LA322 threaded from the factory is not the fully realized Dream Plinker or Perfect Plinker. There are a few missing things such as the 12 inch barrel and open sights. Those are things that can be fixed as needed. Chiappa does have part numbers for replacement parts on their website but after further digging and looking over parts diagrams, adding a front sight will be tricky.




Problems

This project ran into several problems that I attempted to work through. Some of them are such a problem that I've had to rethink the total project and is sort of stuck in limbo.

The first issue I wanted to address was the lack of open sights. It does have the usual dovetail rail on the receiver for a scope. On rifles such as the Henry 22, the front barrel band also has the front sight integrated. The LA322 is similar, however, there is also a cap that covers the muzzle that is molded into the component. If you look at the muzzle of the Kodiak Cub model, you'll have an easier time seeing what I am talking about. The front sight, barrel band and muzzle cap are all cast as one metal piece. I was originally hoping that I could modify the regular barrel band and add a Skinner rear sight.


Muzzle cap of the Kodiak Cup. The metal parts are stainless or silver finished but the cap is cast metal.

The parts diagram of the rifle shows that the barrel is stepped down in diameter and that the front sight cap slides over the muzzle. The barrel on the threaded model doesn't appear to have that step-down and a different band is used. The replacement front sight will need to be modified to work correctly by cutting off the cap at the point where the cap meets the band and remove material from under the sight base to let the barrel slide into the ring. I needed to order parts number 39 and 40 from Chiappa then make the needed changes. It's not as simple as I was hoping this would be. Thankfully, I was able to get both the front sight and the tunnel. Part number 39 was modified but an expected issue came up that I will explain later on.



Front sight from the parts diagram

The rear sight on the regular LA322 is a traditional buckhorn sight dovetailed into the barrel. This version of the rifle doesn't have that dovetail cut in the barrel. It does have the usual 11mm or 3/8 inch rail on the receiver. That's perfect as I had planned on using a Skinner rear aperture sight like I have on the Henry. The first major snag I ran into, however, is that the receiver is rounded on the top. The Skinner Rimfire sight uses a flat base. It won't fit. After doing additional research, I later found that the William WGRS-54 sight should work for what I have in mind but I would have to order more parts.

On to the second issue. For the most part, there is a very logical reason that having a threaded barrel on a lever action .22 LR rifle with a full length magazine isn't usually a thing. Most .22 silencers measure approximately 1 inch in diameter. That means that the lower rear portion of the silencer body is obstructing the magazine tube. To load one of these rifles, you remove the tube by rotating the knob to unlock the inner part. Then you pull the tube toward the muzzle and load cartridges, nose-forward into the cartridge shaped slot on the magazine tube body. 



The extended barrel band included with the rifle allows the inner part to clear the silencer.

If a silencer is threaded on, the tube will not likely clear the silencer. You have to remove the silencer from the barrel, remove the tube, load the magazine, reinsert the tube and screw on the silencer. That's a cumbersome way to plink. I attempted to confirm that the tube would not clear the silencer the day I took home the rifle. I did find something very interesting though. My rifle's thread pitch was not 1/2x28 as advertised. I suspected the pitch was 1/2x20, the usual European pattern and these are Italian made guns. I reached out to Chiappa to confirm. They confirmed that a number of these rifles were shipped with European spec barrels. They offered to RMA the rifle and provided a shipping label to replace the barrel. It took a few months to get the rifle back. 

Once in hand, I was pleasantly surprised to find that they had corrected this issue but I did run into a new problem. The threaded section is very long. In fact, it's so long that the silencer doesn't screw down far enough to seat on the shoulder. Thankfully, Q includes a spacer they said would be needed for this sort of issue. I also found Chiappa had used a barrel band that was extended enough to push the magazine tube below the silencer body. I can remove the tube without removing the silencer. For me to continue to pursue the build with open sights, I would have to use the shorter, modified barrel band. This now means that the magazine tube and silencer body would interfere with each other as stated above.

There are a few ways to bypass this issue but the best solution is to use a narrow diameter silencer. The smallest diameter rimfire silencer I know of is AB Suppressor's Little Bird. I know of at least one person who did a similar build with a Henry Silver Boy (See pnw_pew on Instagram) and the Little Bird. Since I don't own a Little Bird, I need another solution. 

Enter Griffin Armament. Griffin Armament makes a nifty quick detach system called CAM-LOK. It's almost like an interrupted thread system that allows for a fast on and off removal of a silencer. Normally, the system is for recoil operated pistols to use a suppressor and have a quick attach and detach system. 

For example, I have a CAM-LOK piston in my Dead Air booster assembly. I can put that booster into my Primal or Wolfman. I have a few semi-auto pistols in different calibers that have the CAM-LOK muzzle adapters. I can take the Primal with the piston and quick attach it to a 9mm pistol with an adapter and fire, then move the silencer to my .45 ACP pistol with adapter. This occurs  without issue and no changes to the piston are needed. They also have a universal direct thread adapter in 1/2x28. That adapter was the key to making this whole build easier to work with given the shorter barrel band.

By using that adapter on my Q El Camino, I would have been able to attach and remove the silencer for loading quickly and easily. Together, the system is about $140 which is a little more expensive than the Gemtech 4 lug system but I already had an extra CAM-LOK adapter in 1/2x28 from another gun I no longer have. I just needed the universal adapter for the silencer side of the system which is $79 on their website. With the Griffin Armament CAM-LOK system, I can remove and attach the silencer for easy loading. That's one problem solved. 

At least that's what I thought.

Because the Skinner sight doesn't fit the receiver and I don't have the Williams sight and the front barrel band doesn't slide on just yet and needs additional milling to clean up, I'm not able to pursue the open sights part of this build at the moment.

Additionally. if I do use the sighted front band, I will absolutely loose the convivence of keeping the silencer attached for reloading. I'm becoming less interested in this idea the more I use the rifle. At this point, the CAM-LOK idea is pretty much out of the running.

After running into these issues during the assembly phase of the project, I just wanted to run the gun and see how it would be. I just wanted to enjoy my new rifle. I screwed the silencer onto the rifle with the spacer, installed the beautiful Mason Leather stock cuff on the rifle and clipped on the Uncle Mike's magazine tube sling stud. I will need to install the other sling stud later on. I still needed a sighting system.



The Mason Leather 22 stock cuff that's just beautiful. This holds a 50 round box of 22 LR.


How Is It?

I borrowed an ADE Spike 4 MOA red dot from my CZ457 Scout and modified the picatinny to dovetail adapter to fit the round receiver. It was a very sloppy job but it works for the time being. I zeroed the rifle for 36 yards. 

My initial impressions shooting this rifle is that there is nothing like a lever action .22 LR with a tube full of CCI Standard Velocity and a good silencer attached. Even in just the stock configuration without my fully realized Dream Plinker, the LA322 with a red dot and silencer is fantastically fun to shoot. Honestly, from just the short time I've been able to enjoy the rifle, I recommend it but with caveats.

I like that it looks like a Marlin 39A in passing but internally it is anything but a Marlin.

What I don't like is how cheap the finish feels. It's nice looking but it's not a steel receiver that's finely finished and blued, like a Marlin 39A. Then again, you aren't paying for that and the street price is sure nice. It's very accessible.

The action isn't gritty or rough, it's smooth but it's not light like my Henry is as if there is friction slowing it down. I suppose that will take time to loosen up with use. The manual does recommend a 100 to 150 round break in period.

Future

I'm not sure that I will able to realize this project to it's fullest for a while but I will continue to think it over. The Perfect Plinker concept would need for me to trim down the barrel to 12 inches or so. That will take a lot of work as the magazine needs shortened as well. It also requires the $200 NFA tax and registration. I'm torn on doing the paperwork, the Form 1, to make that happen. I don't like registrations and I don't like paying taxes on Constitutional rights. Many .22 LR loads don't actually need a barrel length in excess of 12 inches, something I go over in another article you can read about shorter barrels. I would also need to engrave the receiver per certain rules. Incidentally, the modified barrel band couldn't be used anyway as a 12 inch barrel would shorter than there is room for. That brings me to the next part of this.

The open sights problem has presented me with something to think over given that my initial idea didn't work. Should I actually choose to pursue the open sights again, the Williams WGRS-54 sight will need to be tested. I had hoped that the barrel band modification would work but after additional consideration, milling a dovetail into the front of the barrel and installing a more traditional gold bead sight seems to be the better idea. This would allow me to keep the stock barrel band and allow the tube to clear the silencer. I do just happen to have an extra Marbles front sight from the Winchester restoration project. I will inquire with my trusted locals to see if we can mill a dovetail into the barrel. That said, I think that I will wait until I decide to commit to shortening the barrel. It doesn't make much sense to run out and modify the barrel then have to make the same dovetail cut again.

Summary

I never expected that a company would actually make a carbine length lever action .22 LR rifle with a threaded barrel but I am sure glad that Chiappa did it. The bonus with the LA322 is two fold. First, it looks like a Marlin 39A which is a bucket list or "Someday Gun" for me. The second bonus is that this LA322 is a takedown model. That means I can undo the side screw to disassemble the rifle for easy transport and cleaning.

The downsides of the LA322 are the limitations on rimfire accessories due to the rounded receiver. If you are trying to use a scope, make sure that your rings will work. Note that the rifle was intended for that particular setup. You will also need to be selective about what mounts you are using if you plan on using anything picatinny-based. The cheap internal adapters from Amazon will require heavy modification and I don't recommend this method at all as it will scratch up your new receiver's finish. Something that I didn't know about until after the fact is the UTG RDM-20 dovetail mount. These are a Docter footprint, low profile dovetail mount (part number is RDM-20XSD) that are designed for this sort of application though it does sit higher than what I would like. I absolutely wish I had known about this part before I started modifying the adapter. Lesson learned.

Additionally, the takedown system is currently tight but the tab that slots into the receiver has a little vertical play in it when you apply pressure to the two halves of the rifle. It isn't an issue now but I will be keeping an eye on it.

If you want something similar to this but are on a tight budget, Rossi makes a version of their Rio Bravo called the Tactical. It has a 16 inch threaded barrel and comes with a picatinny rail section for a red dot or scope. It also has sling studs. I wouldn't say that the Chiappa is expensive by any means but the Rossi is just a bit cheaper. The Rio Bravo also doesn't look as nice with the plastic furniture. The Henry Frontier Threaded is still the best turnkey solution for this sort of thing as it has everything needed out of the box. It'll probably the quietest as well with that long barrel. I just don't want that long of a barrel and is about $125+ more in street price. I really do like the carbine length barrels.

So is the LA322 the Perfect Plinker? I think it's pretty darn close. It's inexpensive, looks nice and can be configured with the best of accessories with a little bit of research and effort. Maybe you like a bolt-action or a semi-auto but I like a lever action and so far, the LA322 is pushing all the right buttons. Stay tuned for more Chippa LA322 content. 

07 August 2024

Thompson Center's Return - Proposed Timeline

 For those of you who have not yet heard, Thompson Center, the makers of the single shot pistols and numerous muzzleloaders, are returning. In an interview with Gregg Ritz, conducted by Ethan Yazel of "I Love Muzzleloading," Mr. Ritz laid out the roadmap they are working toward to bring products back. The first thing they expect to have return in the Encore platform. Mr. Ritz is pushing to have the single-shot platform available around the October timeline. This is a great as this should put the platform back into hunter's hands for the 2024 deer season. They also expect that next year, they will have some type of muzzleloading platform. They seem to be focused on bringing an Encore based option out first. This makes sense as it can be a simple barrel swap and noted that it would likely be based on the Federal FireStick system for compatibility reasons. They also hinted at hoping to have a Hawken out in 2026 but we shall see what they are able to swing.

They did specify that as they bring out legacy products like the Contender and Encore, they are pushing for backwards compatibility to maintain the interchangeability with older guns. That's a huge deal as the main feature of those platforms is the simple barrel swap system. In fact, it's the reason I want a Contender. I have some ideas and I very much want to do some handgun hunting.

Stay tuned.

04 August 2024

45 Colt Handloads - A Rolling Update

 In my quest to look for a .45 Colt handload that I can use for target shooting with my Pietta 1873 SA with a 4 3/4 inch barrel, I would like to keep track of what I come up with. All of the loads are trying to stay within or close to the 14,000 PSI standard given that this revolver is a SAA clone and is not expected to survive loads that one would put through a Ruger Blackhawk or Winchester 92. A Ruger Blackhawk or a Rossi R92 are not in my possession so if you are wondering why I don't use that, that's why. The Pietta is what I have for now so that's what we're starting with. 

The project starts with gauging the chamber throats of the Pietta for uniformity. A lack of uniformity will negatively impact accuracy as each chamber being different may widen the group. I've heard of some guns shooting 5 inch groups being reduced to 1 inch groups with corrections to the chamber throats.  I ordered three pin gauges starting at 0.451 to 0.453 inch to test the Pietta's chamber throats. We're looking for 0.4525 inch for cast bullets meaning the 0.452 pin should pass but the 0.453 pin should not. That's exactly what ended up being the case. A pleasant surprise from an inexpensive revolver. Now that the gun checks out, let's look at the loads.



The Pietta 1873 SA in .45 Colt, AKA the Cabela's Special.


As usual, if you try to duplicate these loads, that's on you and I am NOT responsible for your actions. 

I am using data found here.

https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

I'm starting with GT Bullet's 225 grain cast lead semi wad cutters sized to .452 inch but I will also try to tinker with the Laser Cast 200 gr .452 RNFP I have for target. They have a 15 BHN which is too hard for use in hunting at these velocities. I will only use them for target shooting. I've ordered 200 of the bullets are waiting for them to be cast, shipped and delivered. There is currently a 21 week backorder so it will be a while before I can get started.

Unlike the .357 Magnum post, I will be focusing on powder selection instead of trying a bunch of different bullets. I'll be starting with HS-6 because I have close to 2 lbs of it at this time but if I can't get a satisfactory load from it, then I will move on to other powders. I am very interested in CFE Pistol as the Hodgdon reloading data shows the highest velocities. I have some alternative powders I would like to look at in the future depending on local availability such as Universal, 2400 or Unique. Universal actually has the highest velocity data according to the Hodgdon website but I can't get it easily without online ordering. I don't want to pay HAZMAT fees if I don't have to.

Update Feb 2024: The below data is specific to keeping the chamber pressures below 14,000 PSI. However, there is speculation that the newer SAA clones can handle as much as 23,000 PSI. I'm not trying to Elmer Keith my gun but there's only one way to know. Well, two or more actually, but I don't have QuickLoad. That's $155 software package that gives you probable pressure curves. There are other calculators but PMAX doesn't have HS-6.

Update 2 Feb 2024: Looking at the math, the 225 grain bullets I ordered are likely to show up around June. I ordered a bullet mold from MP Molds. It's a 4 cavity hollow point version of the H&G #68 mold from a long time ago. Apparently, that mold was great for target loads which fits right in line with what I'm trying to do here. It's also a hollow point mold so I can use it for other things latter on. These are 185 grain bullets according to the site but we'll need to see what weight they actually cast at. I'm seeing some data that says the bullets will drop out closer to 195 grain. I'll start adding this bullet to the list when I have loading data. Apparently, Hodgdon only has 1 load for 185 grain bullets for .45 Colt and that's using Accurate Number 5. I can get #5 from Bas Pro if needed. I'll have to check my Lyman book for more but what I am able to find in forums has that this bullet will do nicely for what I have in mind. That bullet should also work for my .45 ACP guns as needed. Seems like a good choice. Looking further, Hodgdon does have a load for a 180 grain bullet using CFE Pistol which just reinforces the notion I should get a bottle. I pulled several points of data for the 180 grain bullet and each are noted as such.

Update 3 FEB 2024: I loaded up some 200 grain cast using both HS-6 and Triple Seven. I wanted to see if 777 was usable in this instance. It turns out to have done pretty well with the 200 grain. I also now have a 185 grain mold from MP Molds to make hollow points. During the testing, the Pietta show very low. I don't know that I could file enough front sight to fix how low the drop is at 25 yards. I need to do more testing but I didn't hit the paper target once when shooting over the chronograph and aiming directly at the paper IDPA target. A different firearm is likely needed.

Update 4 JUL 2024: The GT Bullets 225 grain hollow points are in. I also have a bottle of WinClean 244. Instead of Titegroup (for now) I will be testing with the Winchester 244.

Update AUG 2024: After spending some time thinking about it, I wanted to see about using .45 Colt for hunting from a revolver. I know I can get enough velocity from a rifle but from a revolver, what sort of velocity would I need to load something such as a 250 gr XTP and be able to hit a deer at 100 yards and still get that bullet to expand. A video I watched had an XTP hitting water jugs around 1188 fps at the target and getting great expansion. I don't know if those XTP bullets will still expand at 1000 fps but let's pretend that they do. After fiddling around with a ballistic calculator, I would need the cartridge to push that XTP at a minimum velocity of 1220 fps. Mr Joey Hunt reports the Lyman Reloader book has  26.5 gr of H110 could do 1400 from a Ruger Blackhawk but from the 5.5 inch barrel I had been interested in only got around 1150 fps. I have ordered a book of my own to see what the range would be and if I can get to 1220 fps. I do have a bottle of H110. That's likely going to be a tall order with lots of recoil. It's got me thinking about .41 Magnum again.


Triple Seven (777)

Triple Seven is a black powder substitute and needs to be treated like BP. Be extra careful. 

200 grain RNFP from Oregon Trail (Target Only) - I have a bunch of these from before

Staring data: 35 grains by volume

Ending Data: 40 grains by volume (this is not a full case load and has mild compression)

Velocities:

35 grain - 946 FPS Avg - ES 34 FPS

40 grain - 999 FPR Avg - ES 21 FPS (There was one reading that was much lower than the rest so I tossed it)

Shot Groups: No group data at this time as I didn't have enough loads to test velocity and accuracy. The Pietta's point of impact is very low and very left even from a rested position. 

Notes: The Triple Seven loads with these bullets were fun. They were very smoky and the plume as entertaining. The 40 grain by volume load was very close to the 1000 FPS I'm looking for and I would bet that a 185 grain bullet would hit that. I don't know how these would do for hunting but I know how to find out.


WinClean 244

While I was looking for alternatives for Unique for bunnyfart/light loads, the burn chart had Universal and Winchester or WinClean 244. I didn't see Universal around but did find 244 at Bass Pro. I got a bottle on the way back from our 4th of July vacation. It was originally intended for the 105 grain 38 Special subsonic rounds for my Marlin CST but there are all the common pistol calibers including magnums. I figured I would try it out in .45 Colt to see if the SAA would fair any better. 

225 grain LSWC

Staring data: 5.2 grains (738 fps)

Ending Data: 7.2 grains (972 fps)

Velocities:


Shot Groups:

185 grain Cast from an MP Molds #10112 (Data is for a 180 grain)

Staring data: 6.8 grains (914 fps)

Ending Data: 9.1 grains (9.1 fps)

Velocities:


Shot Groups:



HS-6

200 grain RNFP from Oregon Trail (Target Only) - I have a bunch of these from before

I bypassed the lowest starting level and went straight to 12.0 grains and making 5 rounds each level for testing. I increased grain weight by .2 grains for each group.

Staring Data: 11.7 grains 

Ending Data: 13.0 grains

Velocities:

12.0 gr - 905 FPS Avg - ES 30 FPS

12.2 gr - 927 FPS Avg - ES 142 FPS

12.4 gr - 942 FPS Avg - ES 61 FPS

12.6 gr - 952 FPS Avg - ES 57 FPS

12.8 gr - 1002 FPS Avg - ES 43 FPS

13.0 gr - 1007 FPS Avg - ES 80 FPS


Shot Groups: No group data at this time as I didn't have enough loads to test velocity and accuracy.

Notes: Some of extreme spreads where okay and others not so great. I have heard that HS-6 prefers a near max load and that 12.8 did pretty okay. I may stick with that one. I'd like to see how the 185 grain cast loads do. 


225 grain LSWC

Staring data: 7.0 grains (684 fps)

Ending Data: 9.3 grains (919 fps)

Velocities: (When I have it, I'll update)


Shot Groups: 



185 grain Cast from an MP Molds #10112

All the data I have for this is from forums and most everyone is using Unique. I'm having to extrapolate data from my Lyman book and from Hodgdon's website. The Lyman book's data for a 200 grain bullet is 11.2 grains of HS-6. The book tends to step down in powder charge dropping to 10.5 grains for max charge with a 250 grain bullet. I suspect that operating in the same charge range with the lighter bullet than the 200 grain load will work. I will start with the Lyman Cast Handbook data for a 200 grain bullet and end with the Hodgdon data. I suspect that those 13 grain charges are going to be pretty fast moving. I'm currently looking for 1000 fps from the 4 5/8 inch barrel.

Staring data: 11.2 grains 

Ending Data: 13.0 grains

Velocities:


Shot Groups:




CFE Pistol

CFE Pistol is highly interesting as the Hodgdon website shows the highest velocities for .45 Colt with a 225 grain. Not that we are using it. I also found load data for .38 Special and 105 gr bullets meaning I can load subsonic plinking loads for the Marlin 1894 but I think this would specialize for 45 Colt.

225 grain LSWC

Staring data: 6.4 grains 

Ending Data: 8.0 grains 

Velocities:


Shot Groups:

185 grain Cast from an MP Molds #10112 (Data is for a 180 grain)

Staring data: 8.5 grains 

Ending Data: 10.2 grains

Velocities:


Shot Groups:


Titegroup

225 grain LSWC

Staring data: 4.4 grains 

Ending Data: 6.0 grains 

Velocities:


Shot Groups:

185 grain Cast from an MP Molds #10112 (Data is for a 180 grain)

Staring data: 6.0 grains 

Ending Data: 6.9 grains

Velocities:


Shot Groups:



HP-38

225 grain LSWC

Starting Data: 5.1 grains 

Ending Data: 6.9 grains 

Velocities:


Shot Groups:

185 grain Cast from an MP Molds #10112 (Data is for a 180 grain)

Staring data: 6.0 grains 

Ending Data: 8.2 grains

Velocities:


Shot Groups: